8.25.2009

The Great Juno Debate

My friend Andrew is one of my all-time favorite people ever. One of the things I enjoy most about him is that I'm able to be 100% unabashedly stupid around him and (to my knowledge) he doesn't think any less of me. And I don't mean stupid in a HAHA jokey jokey kind of way, I mean stupid in the most literal definition of the word: not intelligent. I come to Andrew not knowing about something and he talks to me like I'm simple country folk and breaks things down in a way that I can understand. He's like a walking _____ For Dummies book. If anybody else were to talk to me like this, I'd find it patronizing and offensive and probably deliver a swift kick to the groin. But for some reason when Andrew does it, I appreciate it and find it really, really soothing. So much of my day is spent pretending that I know what I'm talking about to save face at the office, so it's almost liberating to have someone that I can go to and be like, "I 'dun get it. Explain it to me all slow-like. GO!" and not feel stupid about it.

The other night Andrew and I were eating Greek, drinking some wine and watching Juno, as you do, when we got into a disagreement over the nature of Juno and Mark's relationship. Specifically whether or not Mark had concrete plans to bang out Juno after leaving Vanessa. I understand that their relationship is supposed to be innapropriate either way you look at it, but I don't think that Mark had any real intentions of crossing that line with Juno. I think Juno symbolizes the life that Mark used to have and the compromises he made to be with Vanessa, so flirting with her is like flirting with the idea of regaining his individuality. But he's not explicitly attracted to Juno in a bang-around-the-clock kind of way.

Andrew, however, thinks that it's implied that Jason Bateman is sexually attracted to Juno and given the opportunity would have sex with her. And that's why he leaves his wife. To bang Juno. It's cut and dry. Jason Bateman + Juno = Bang Party '07.

There are two scenes that support Andrew's theory:
1.) When Juno comes over to the Loring's house, she asks if Vanessa's home and Mark replies, "no, "we're safe."
2.) Juno freaks out when Mark tells her that he's leaving Vanessa and Mark asks, "what exactly did you think was going on here?" or something to that effect.

I can see how these scenes would support Andrew's theory, however, I still think I'm right.
1.) I think he means "we're safe" in the sense that Vanessa's not home so they're safe to be their wacky, out-there selves, not safe to get up with the get down. Kind of like when my bosses aren't here I'm safe in the sense that I can shamelessly watch episodes of My So-Called Life and play Snood all day without having to pretend I'm actually doing work.
2.) Ok, yeah, that's sort of an incriminating line. However, I think Mark is just being like, "You always call me out for being a sell out. So I left my wife. And now you're shocked. What did you think was going to happen?" Right...?


Normally when Andrew tells me I'm wrong about something, I'm completely willing to accept it at face-value and assume he's right, but in this case, I kind of think that I'm right. I've been polling people on this issue for a few days now and I can't get a clear consensus. Everyone is torn. Thus, I thought I would poll you fine people. Kindly go here and vote. (You don't have to sign up for anything, I swear.*)

(*EDIT: Well fuck me, you do have to sign in. Feel free to leave your vote as a comment. That's what I get for trying to be all tech-savvy.)

Ahhh...it's been too long around here since our last Great Debate. You have until Wednesday at midnight to vote. (And creating that poll was a giant pain in the ass, so kindly take the time to vote. Kthnxbyeeee!)

102 comments:

Nosivad said...

Megs, I think you both have it right and allow me to explain. Yes, I think initially he acted as you suggested, but as things went along and he realized more and more that he was soo unhappy and he wasn't being himself any longer. At this point his balls were reattached and then he wanted to bang Juno like a lot of other guys did. So initially he didn't whcih supports your claims, but the moment he moves out and she pops they for sure listen to music and get it on!

Anna said...

hmm, i just tried to vote but it twouldnt let i. shockingly enough, i vote for your theory. weird right? i cant believe we have something in common considering we almost broke up after the jdate debate. so lets spit-in-palm and shake on it:

i choose number TWO [t o, t o o, t w o...]

2 Birds, 1 Blog: The sardonic voice of 20-somethings everywhere, Monday through Friday. said...

WHAT?! We agree on something? Welp. That explains the pig that just flew outside my window.

Stephanie said...

I'm with you Meg, I do not feel that he actually wanted to bone the girl, just that he was enjoying her company because it helped him recapture his (sonic) youth. I hope so anyway. I had an Arrested Development marathon yesterday so I just want to believe that Jason Bateman can do no wrong.

JamFla said...

Bang Fest '07, I side with _____ For Dummies.

LB said...

I think this is a guy/girl issue. Guys will say of course he wanted to bang her, duh, guys will bang most anything. Girls will say oh no they are just friends, and she represents what his life used to/could be like.

I hate this movie, first of all, or more, I hate the Juno character - Jason Bateman is the only saving grace in this film, and by God it would have killed me if he had intentions to sleep with the know-it-all uber-witty 16 year old.

ok, stepping off soap box.

He didn't want to bang her. Final answer.

Anonymous said...

I think you're both right as well. Here's the thing--yes, it started out as innocent fun and she symbolized for him his old unattached life (your version); however, he'd a'done her at any given moment. It wasn't like he was in love with her woulda done her--but he was more of a I'm a swanky fun young bachelor-type dude woulda done her. In effect, he was not leaving his wife for Juno, but she was supposed to be a tasty toy suprise in his happy meal o' bachelorhood.

Grant said...

Oh, he wants to hit that. Hard.

They're dancing, right?, and he's all like "Don't you feel like there's something between us?" This thing is of course her distended preggo-belly. But once that's outta the way he wants to dive down into those vintage jeans. Fo' sho'

Rebecca said...

Bang Fest '07

there's nothing that a dude in his mid-life crisis likes better than boning a young thang who thinks he's the shit because he has a couple old records and enjoys gory movies and isn't old enough to know better

Anonymous said...

Stepping back on to LB's soap box: Hated this movie, and I hate the Juno character - it also would have killed me if he had intentions to sleep with her.

re said...

I'm with Meg!

Emily said...

I have to say I never quite understood what Mark meant by "What do you exactly think was going on here" but I never once thought he wanted to bang Juno. I think he was caught up in what she reminded him of, youth, fun, she woke him up from his stagnant life but it didn't mean he wanted her. So I agree with you.

The D said...

I started off this comment to say it probably ultimately was a bang-town situation, but I agree with the other few commenters who felt it was initially platonic. I think Mark starts off thinking Juno is a cool chick and just enjoys discussing music, culture, etc. But as he realizes how unhappy he is with Vanessa, he thinks Juno is the one.

So maybe it was a bit of both in the end - perhaps he wanted to pursue beyond just banging and start a relationship. Maybe even raise the kid together? Relationship in the true sense would have to involve both theories (companionship, intimacy, and attraction) together so you could both be right.

Either way, I can't decide which was more awkward: Bateman trying to bang Ellen Page in Juno or Justine Bateman trying to jump his bones on Arrested Development? It'd be the latter if it wasn't done in such a humorous context.

poelondon said...

LB, Grant and Rebecca.....word. I swear on the life of freelance Camelot bodyguards everywhere, that crazy mo-fo wanted to hit it. Sad but true.

emily said...

I think it's both too, a la Anon's comment.

But really was going to post just b/c of the Snood reference. Oh Snood, how you remind me of college...

Rachel said...

I agree with Meg. He only wanted to bang what she represented, not her actual self. Don't doubt yourself girl!

ErinnMike said...

I think it was sort of both. He totally wanted to hook up with her but then realized she was a teenager so he ditched the wifey to go hookup with people his age....

Katie said...

He TOTALLY wanted to bang Juno. Way hard.

Anonymous said...

He totally wanted to bang her.

mol<>ledik said...

Here's the deal. While he wanted Juno "RULL bad" what he wanted was not so much her in his bed and her wanting to be in his bed. Know what I mean? The idea that she was digging him was the thing that got him off, and I do mean that in a sexual way. It was not innocent, but neither do I think that he was about to have sex with a pregnant 17 year old.

Anonymous said...

I'm definitely voting with Meg on this one!

The Kuh said...

I agree with mol<>ledik. It wasn't that he wanted her. It was the idea that she wanted him that excited him. Because she was oh-so-cool, it made him feel equally cool to be wanted again by someone like her.

Stephanie said...

I'm on both sides. Because on the one hand, I don't want to believe he wanted to bang her, and I REALLY don't want to think about him banging her. But on the other hand, she IS pregnant. So, despite her age, I gotta realize that that would make it really easy for him to see her as a potential bang. She's obviously had sex. On the other foot (I'm out of hands), I think that whoever said she made him realize he wanted to bang her, which would be WAY wrong, so he divorced his wife to go bang someone else his age, probably had it right. Cause that makes it all comfy for me. It swerves away from crossing the line right before it gets there.

mary said...

it can't be both cuz once you wanna hit it you wanna hit it...no going back to friendsies foreves.

she totes thought he wanted to bang her when he said that line, but i like to think he was better than that...i mean he's my fav part of dodgeball...

Jenna said...

Meg, I think you're right on this one. Is it an awkward and semi-creepy relationship between Juno and Mark? Absolutely. Did he probably fantasize about her in hopes of re-capturing his wild youth? He very well may have.

But is that all the driving force to him leaving his wife? Absolutely not.

Anonymous said...

pound-town.

Shelagh said...

I don't think he has any plans to actually bang her. I think he's flirting with the idea because of what she represents to him, but if she'd suddenly seemed down for it I think he'd snap back to reality. Like in American Beauty when Lester finally gets his chance with Mena Suvari and he's like, what the fuck am I doing...?

Anonymous said...

No, he did not actually want to bang her. For all the reasons you've described, plus the fact that she was an absolute whale at the time, and Jennifer Garner is gorgeous. Clearly, the issue was not about sex here.

2 Birds, 1 Blog: The sardonic voice of 20-somethings everywhere, Monday through Friday. said...

LB, Grant and Rebecca.....word. I swear on the life of freelance Camelot bodyguards everywhere, that crazy mo-fo wanted to hit it. Sad but true.

That was an award-winning reference.

James said...

I don't think he started out with intentions on a bang fest, but I think that by the time he tells her he's leaving his wife, he's ready to give her the hot beef injection. Not while she's preggo and not in the home he shares with his wife, but the relationship has taken a sexual turn.

Anonymous said...

I side with Meg.

Jen said...

i'd recommend listening to the "fresh aire" interview with jason bateman. even he didn't know what the right answer was, and each take was acted differently.

Anonymous said...

I'm with Meg. He wasn't actually going to sleep with her- it just wasn't that kind of movie.

beanery said...

I remember watching the scene with the "what exactly did you think was going on here" line and feeling a little icked out by Mark, so I have to side with Andrew on this one.

The D said...

Now I feel like I need to watch this movie again, if not only to find new and creative ways to say these two might have cooked up some pork fu young that also allude to the movie:
- Sipped the Sunny D?
- Give her the Paulie Bleeker?

Come on people, IMDB can only help me so much.

Erin said...

He didn't want her, he wanted her lifestyle (minus preggo my eggo).

Anonymous said...

I believe it started with Meg's answer and turned into Andrews when he turned into a creepster. A big one. In the end, Andrew wins.

Mike said...

He definitely wanted to bang her, preggers and all. There's a line in the movie where Mark says, "I wanted to force you into anal, but you're already pregnant, so vag sex it is. And if you tell anyone I'll kill you, you little slut." It's in the director's cut...check it out. Also in that version there's a 30 minute hardcore sex scene between Michael Cera and the girl with the wonky eye. Both scenes are disturbing, yet compelling.

Anonymous said...

I vote that it was intentionally ambiguous.

Personal opinion?

Bang Fest 07.

My last 20 said...

I think that Juno was naive about what Jason Bateman said in the first comment but then realized what was happening with the second comment. Juno was the type of chick who could be friends with guys and not totally look at the inuendo type stuff coming from an older guy. Like she says to him...your like old etc etc. (She had to have the idea of banging Michael FFS he didn't even come up with it.) I think she saw him as an older brother thing and she was doing a good thing for the family unit as it were but I honestly think Juno was retarded at some point. Hello captain obvious Juno, however she isn't the most hit on girl in her class so maybe she was just DUH or something.

Anonymous said...

No guy in his (let's be generous) mid-30's wants to bang a pregnant 16 year old. Not if he has a brain in his little pin head. And I believe the Jason Bateman character was written WITH a brain. She was simply a reflection of all the things his life was lacking. Now having said that, it doesn't mean he didn't go out and start banging some other hot little thang as soon as he got the hell outta there. But no, he never wanted to "do" Juno.

LOOK AT ME ... Soon to be DPT said...

he totally is trying to bang the shit out of her in that movie-sry Megz

Pamela said...

I def thought he wanted to bang her out. Maybe I"m just sick like that.

Tine said...

I think he wanted to have sex with her, simply because every time I watch the parts involving the two of them, I get a bad feeling in my gut. It may have started out pretty innocent, but as the movie goes on, there are some shady things going on in his head.

Anonymous said...

I vote No. He had no immediate plans to bone her. My reasons for believing this are two fold. One fold, I have a little crush on the Batemeister and have a hard time believing he would bone a pregnant teenager who has his potential babay and two fold he never did try and pull the bacon out and pork her. He and the wife lady were going to get a divorce whether Juno came into the picture or not. The love just wasn't there. I think because Jennifer Garner is a cold fish, and a secret spy for SD-6.

2 Birds, 1 Blog: The sardonic voice of 20-somethings everywhere, Monday through Friday. said...

i'd recommend listening to the "fresh aire" interview with jason bateman. even he didn't know what the right answer was, and each take was acted differently.

WHAT?! But how am I supposed to finally one-up Andrew if there's no right answer?! That's horse shit.

2 Birds, 1 Blog: The sardonic voice of 20-somethings everywhere, Monday through Friday. said...

For your consideration:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=92066028

Chanes said...

I think it's open for interpretation but I won't be that annoying person who points that out.

If i had to choose i'm sorry to say it was supposed to be Bang Fest '07!

Aline said...

I think he's creepy, in a "I want to bang Juno" kind of way. Sorry Meg-point to Andrew.

Sara said...

100% agree with meg...

Anonymous said...

I'm with you too, Meg. I don't think he was going to cross that line.

Casey said...

I never really understood the whole dynamic between the two of them, I just know that it made me feel creepy to watch it. So I guess I vote for Bang Fest. I don't know.

SLynnRo said...

Um yeah, you are TOTALLY RIGHT. NO QUESTION.

Teddy said...

Megs, To me it was never about the sex between the two, it was all about the life he wants and the compromises he has to make. Also, Juno doesnt bat an eye at the "we're safe" line, she took it, as I did, to mean that she wasnt home so they could talk about music and movies and shit.

Shannon said...

My vote: No, it wasn't like that. It was just innocent flirtation with someone who reminded him of the life he gave up

Anonymous said...

You have it right. But only because you are MORE right. It was obvious that Mark was not getting what he needed from his relationship with Vanessa. He wanted someone to appreciate his talents and be interested in him and the things he's interested in. He found that in Juno. Dudes are sensitive creatures (believe it or not). And they like to feel valued in a relationship.

Unfortunately, the point of intimacy they found themselves was also where, in real life, dudes get a little bit whacky. ALL dudes want Bang Fest 07, but he didn't want Juno for THAT explicitly. He DEFINITELY would have considered it down the road - but not at that point.

Sarsh722 said...

When Juno first pops on the scene -- completely innocent, he's excited to have someone who appreciates his taste in music and movies. By the time he leaves Vanessa, he's wants to make more babies.

2 Birds, 1 Blog: The sardonic voice of 20-somethings everywhere, Monday through Friday. said...

Uh, if "all dudes want Bang Fest '07" then why am I currently watching More to Love and not getting banged?

Chris said...

Meg, my wife and I agree with you 100%.

Tyng said...

I think it's a mixture of both. Mark did not leave Vanessa to bang Juno, but he wasn't exactly being the fatherly figure. "We're safe" seemed to mean that Vanessa would disapprove of the casual relationship, but "what did you think this was" had more of a sexual undertone. She is who Mark wishes he'd ended up with, but she is not the reason for his divorce, and while he might want to bang the idea of Juno, Juno the girl is still a little girl.

Tyng said...

I think you're supposed to be left with this very debate, because it's ambiguous enough for you to be able to go both ways

Meghan said...

I happen to think that you are right.

Anonymous said...

i'd just like to say, isn't it amazing how divided this debate actually is?

for a hot second there, i'd forgotten i was farting my life away on judo blog recaps and tuesday night more to love.

nice work, indeed, meg. nice work, indeed.

2 Birds, 1 Blog: The sardonic voice of 20-somethings everywhere, Monday through Friday. said...

That's what I'm here for.

Anonymous said...

Mark's line was "How do you think of me?" It's like he's surprised that she's not attracted to him and thinks he's old... buuut I'm going with Meg. I don't think he wanted to bang her, he just wanted to walk that line and feel young and uninhibited. And I'm glad the movie didn't go there. It would have ruined it.

Anonymous said...

no go on the bang - go megs!

Sam said...

He was never going to bang her.

Laurie said...

K, well, I think I'm past your voting timeline, but I'm going to say that since I work the midnight shift and that's when I read your blog, this vote should totally count.
At any rate, I'm going to have to agree with Alex, and say that I think he wanted to bang her. She was young, she was available, and he wanted to hit that.

2 Birds, 1 Blog: The sardonic voice of 20-somethings everywhere, Monday through Friday. said...

Nope, you totes have a whole nother 24 hours to vote........and change your mind.

Ashley said...

First, let it be said that I love me some Snood.

Secondly, I vote for both. I think Juno does represent a life he left behind when he got married...and therefore he wants to bang her to show he's still got it on some level. Or can get it back.

Kristen said...

I recently re-watched Juno, and I gotta say, I think Meg's right. That was my take on the movie anyhow.

liferehab said...

He totally wanted to bang her. What kind of 30 year old man slow dances and hangs out with a 16 year old? A pedophile-like one, that's who!

Anonymous said...

I think if Juno was a more developed, subtle movie, you could make an argument for the Juno-as-lost-youth storyline. But since Juno is a lot more like some big studio execs spent the afternoon watching IFC, had a backhand to forehead moments, and said "shucks! we should make some of dat dere indiependent movie stuff." and then some decent acting (sort of) saved the whole shebang...well, intentional falacies notwithstanding, I'm guessing Andrew's probably right.

Anonymous said...

I agree that it is a combination of both. Think of Mark as John from "John and Kate plus 8" and it's a lot easier to see. John isn't banging 16 year olds, but it is Bangtown, USA for any 21 year olds around him. I think the real question is did Juno want to bang him? Watch her put on lipstick before she goes to his house to see him.

Anonymous said...

He wanted some Juno in his pants.

Ben said...

Don't think he actually wanted to bang her so much as reclaim the free spirit music playing part of his life. This has already been explained.

I do believe that part of the reason their relationship is so uncomfortable to watch is that he is so far removed from his old self that it is grinding gears to rekindle it.

I am with you Meg

Jill said...

He wants to tap it - fo sho. In the beginning of their relationship, I agree with you, but then there's a shift, like he's able to validate his wanting to bang (underaged) Juno. And the line Andrew quoted, during the super-inappropriate scene perfectly shows that.

BC said...

I'm going to agree with Meg. Here's why:

When he and Juno are alone, Mark chooses Sonic Youth to play to her.

Sonic Youth. Of all the songs in the world - Superstar. A Carpenters song. Which although it mentions falling in love, is clearly a song about loneliness.

Either he understands women as well as Luke Conley, or he had no intention of getting into her pants.

Our Lady of Perpetual Astonishment said...

I think it's just like what Shelagh said - very similar to American Beauty. Both Mena Suvari's and Kevin Spacey's characters THOUGHT they wanted to bang each other. They were all about impressing each other for practically the whole movie. And then, just when it was about to happen... I mean, some things are just better as a fantasy. That's what I think this was like in Juno.

So, he wanted to bang the idea of Juno, not Juno herself. I'm basically on your side, Meg.

Anonymous said...

I think he wanted to bang her. Let me know explain-- As Meg says, I think that Mark was attracted to Juno because she represented what he wanted but couldn't have with his wife--but the first of those things was FERTILITY (and to a lesser extent, a love of music and wacky movies).

It is scientfically proven that infertility affects the sexual wellbeing of a relationship and the mutual attraction of both partners, and while his brain was all about going back and being a hipster, I think his horomones were sick of shooting blanks into his infertile wife.

This isn't meant to offend anybody, its just basic anthropology of evolution 101.

Nicole said...

I'm going to have to go with Andrew on this one. Valid points made all around, but I can't suppress the super creeped out and awkward feeling I get whenever that last scene between them is coming up. It makes me physically cringe because it's so weird and inappropriate. All I know is that if I got that feeling while some homeless guy was grasping my arm outside my apartment, I'd be running for it, and fast.

maggie said...

k, its only taken me this long to comment cuz i honestly cannot decide!!

originally, no, i did NOT think that my boy Jason B wanted to giggity with his soon to be baby mama…
BUT! then i think i saw some deleted scene (or maybe i just spaced the first time i saw it) where they're dancing and he gives her a comic book and i was all, shut the fuck up!! you want to bang her!!!

so there you have it…it started out as a recapturing of lost youth and became a creepy attraction to the beach ball

Cassie said...

I felt the same way as you Meg. Hearing all these other arguments got me thinking about it....but I still think you are right. :-)

Jamie said...

I'm with Meg!

kelsey said...

I have had the same debate with many of my friends and I'd have to agree wtih your take on the relationship. I feel he was trying to attach himself to juno innocently to feel a little bit younger. She was more the metaphorical fountain of youth than a conquest. I mean, she is undeniably pregnant by the time their relationship starts to bloom and sixteen. I don't think the character was meant to be depraved, but merely lost in life. She was more the mid-life crisis motorcycle than the mistress.

Anonymous said...

I'm a year late, but there's a deleted scene where Juno and her friend who wants to bang the teacher see Mark talking up a girl their age in a record store. I think it was supposed to be post-divorce; no dialog, probably from the sort of ending montage. You can probably find it on Youtube, I believe it has director's commentary over it.

He wanted to jump her bones.

Kenna Coconut said...

Juno reminded him how much he changed for Vanessa and how incompatible the couple is.

I mean, why didn't Vanessa and Juno become bff's? Because they were incompatible. And Juno= 16 yr old pregnant female Mark.

Plus, Juno learned her lesson about sex. She wasn't ready to give it another go.

Anonymous said...

I think he did have a crush on her and I sure wish he and Juno would end up together, I wish they would have kissed, and they would make a cute couple.

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